Welcome to “Anti-Theology on Friday: Why I Sometimes Hate the Free Church Tradition”. Okay, so I’m playing around a bit with the introduction of yesterday’s post. You may have already heard Todd Bentley, the tattooed “evangelist” who has been leading the long-running “revival” (“The Florida Outpouring”) in Lakeland, Florida, since April 2, will be departing the scene after the August 23 service. The gigantic white tents littering the grounds of the Sun n’ Fun Fly-in, where the meetings have been held since June, will be removed after that evening’s meeting.
“The Florida Outpouring” started at Ignited Church with the 32-year-old Canadian as a guest evangelist. Scheduled originally to speak for a week, Bentley remained when large crowds began flocking to Lakeland. Thousands of individuals from across the globe have attended the services, which have been streamed live over the Internet. Some have claimed the Internet is the reason for the rapid growth of interest in the meetings, though leaders point to the “healings” of serious illnesses. The “evangelist” has even claimed over two dozen individuals have been raised from the dead as a result of the services.
Bentley is scheduled currently to lead “revivals” in Los Angeles, Louisville, Spokane, and overseas (including the UK and Sudan). Ignited Church plans on continuing the “revival” and holding services each night after the Canadian’s departure. Some have surmised his leaving is a result of a negative Nightline feature. Stephen Strader, one of the leaders at Ignited Church, will take the helm. He expects crowds to diminish, though, after Bentley leaves. Bentley plans on retaining an office in Lakeland, in addition to his Fresh Fire Ministries headquarters in Abbotsford, British Columbia.
Despite the crowds and the claims, even some fellow Pentecostals question whether Bentley’s meetings have placed enough emphasis on preaching and calls for repentance. A recent set of guidelines from the Assemblies of God, the largest Pentecostal denomination in the United States, seems to question the Florida Outpouring’s emphasis on miracles. Local pastors have also expressed skepticism about exaggerated claims. None of the recent news reports covering the meetings have been able to verify a single claim of healing. Strader commented that privacy concerns and laws forbidding the release of medical records have prevented “revival” officials from releasing complete information about the identities and conditions of people claiming to be healed.
Here are some examples of Bentley’s anti-theology…
…during baptism…
…and speaking about kicking a woman in the face and choking a man and hitting another man and knocking the tooth out of a man’s mouth and leg-dropping a pastor healing…
…and “being obedient to the Lord” by kneeing a cancer patient.
If a picture is worth a thousand words, then this seems an apt description of Bentley’s antics and anti-theology:

UPDATE (July 26): Bentley is heading to California to “Open Portals in LA with Che Ahn.” The meetings to be held in California are being called “33 Nights of Glory,” and will be hosted at the Ambassador Auditorium by Harvest International Ministry and Che Ahn. Speakers will include Bill Johnson, Cindy Jacobs, Stacey Campbell and Jim Goll. Bentley is speaking tonight, tomorrow and Monday. HT: Wolf Tracks

Carl
July 25, 2008 at 1:53 am
So this mess moved from Pensacola to Lakeland? Boy, Florida sure has its fair share of unBiblical groups. Scientology in Clearwater, Peter Ruckman and his “Bible College” still in Pensacola, spiritualists in Cassadaga, the cult of the mouse outside of Orlando … waitaminnit … that’s Disneyworld … easy mistake to make.
TheDeeZone
July 25, 2008 at 6:15 am
James,
The link to yesterday’s post didn’t work. Living in N central Florida I have heard a lot about Bentley. One day it seemed like every other customer that came in the store would be raving about Bentley & the next would be warning me about the dangers of him.
As for the supposed revival in Lakeland. What I’ve seen doesn’t seem quite right.
Gordan the Tatooed
July 25, 2008 at 6:32 am
As a tatooed evangelist myself, I would like to now publically disown this guy. Frankly, I’d like to do more than that, but current laws against burning heretics stymie my desires.
Scott
July 25, 2008 at 6:37 am
He came to Louisville. Here is a video of his anti-theology from that meeting:
http://throughtheveil.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/todd-bentley-makes-god-move/
Charles Page
July 25, 2008 at 7:01 am
James
That wolf in sheep clothing is a shocker! (as you scroll down it has shock value) It speaks volumes!
Please can I have your permission to use it on one of my blogs, it adequately represents what I feel about some preachers.
Charles
James Galyon
July 25, 2008 at 7:15 am
Charles: It is a picture within the public domain, so you don’t need my permission.
Charles Page
July 25, 2008 at 7:26 am
Perhaps you cannot see the forrest for the trees. I watch portions of that revival every night. Last night they were delivering in assembly line form. Form a line of people on stage and bam, bam, bam, bam down the line, getting ready for the next line. The last line I watch was thoes with suicide struggles and he prayed for deliverance from death. There was a redneck who wore his hat on stage (nearly the unforgiveable sin IMO) and a lady whose problems were very deep seated and he could not get a reaction from her. In my heart I pleaded with the lady to release her faith and receive her deliverance but aparently to no avail. He moved on to the next person.
James, those on stage had real needs, you could see it in their body language as they desperately prepared themselves to be prayed for. God can use a jackass to administer his will. He does it every day after day after day. I know he uses me!
There were locations where Christ could not do any miracles, because of unbelief. Unbelief instilled in the crowds by religious leaders.
The greatest bondage those people had to overcome last night is the unbelief they have received at the churches they once attended. Many of them former SBC people!
Now who are the wolves in sheep clothing. Here I go outraged again just as the day was getting off to a good start. I’ll have to compose a negative post to release some pressure on my blog. Can Todd deliver me from an anger that God has put on me? Can God create a stone bigger than he can lift?
Wyman Richardson
July 25, 2008 at 10:05 am
Oh, come on James! Like YOU’VE never kicked a man with advanced stomach cancer in the gut in the name of the Lord! Sheesh!
Wyman
P.S. – Ok, just kidding. I think the guy should be in jail.
James Galyon
July 25, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Charles, even the devil is the Lord’s delivery boy (as we see in the Book of Job). That doesn’t make the devil (or a jackass) a divinely called minister of the gospel.
Charles Page
July 25, 2008 at 6:23 pm
That doesn’t make the devil (or a jackass) a divinely called minister of the gospel.
I am not sure, he called me! He used me to minister when I was not worthy. Woe be the man or woman who feels worthy! “there is none good . . .”
Wyman, since when can we American fundamentalist every question methodologies.
motorcycles in the sanctuary, pyrotechnics, clowns, shady altar calls, angels suspended from the ceiling, singing x-mas trees, spitting in someones eyes, making mud and plastering their eyes, how can we condemn the healers in Lakeland?
Perhaps needs are being met. If just one person is helped and I am sure there are several, even if they are only psychosomatic they are helped. Could we rejoice if a few are helped or do we go after the healer claiming no one was helped. Like they did Christ.
James Galyon
July 25, 2008 at 9:11 pm
This doesn’t have to do with worthiness, but with having an authentic call to serve as an elder/evangelist. All things are to be done in decency and order, as the Apostle Paul declares (1 Cor. 14:40). Christians are to be baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, not “Bam.” This man has made a mockery of a sacred ordinance which represents the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Lord Jesus may have spit in the mud and put the mixture on somebody’s eyes, but He didn’t make that a normative practice for His people to follow.
I find it interesting, Charles, that you defend Bentley while using a verbal sledge hammer on “Hypos” and “Arminians.”
Ish Engle
July 25, 2008 at 10:11 pm
This Bentley guy strikes me as “off”. Sure, the Holy Spirit “can” out-pour on people and cause a rucuss, but even in Acts it was an orderly rucuss… this Bentley is surrounded by chaos.
As for the motorcycle, sometimes a prop is a good way to illustrate a Biblical point. I think the point illustrated there was don’t hold on to dangerous things, they’ll take you where you don’t want to go (like the first row!). The concept sounded good, the lesson is valid (unity in the Body of Christ), but the execution was off. If it hadn’t driven away, it would probably have “driven” home the point rather well. If people can better relate to God’s Word through stuff like that, what’s the issue?
Just my $0.02.
Charles Page
July 26, 2008 at 7:16 am
James
I am as disappointed at the antics of Todd as everyone else. When I was a pentecostal pastor I refused such antics and spoke out against such when I saw it by others. Todds’ antics are caught on video for all to see, nothing hid. The u-tube you show reveal that with captions imposed over the video. You all are angry. This is “free church” and no one to control it. You can only sit back and crititize. This is a “splinter” issue.
I am angry and crititize a “beam” issue (I am sure this is not contexually based) A large prestigious flagship church with sculptured architecture and three lighted crosses showcased on the I-40 interstate here in Memphis had an associate pastor who [molested] his own son for 12-18 months and it remained consealed for 17 years at this great bastion of American faith. There was not enough godliness in that ministry to move God to reveal that sin. The few who did know could not come out and talk to the captain of the ship. He was too busy masterminding a resurgence. He was authoring “deadbeat dads” sermons and he was creating “love worth finding”. He was building a big building. His celebrity was national and he was too busy to be distrubed….When it was finally revealed many in the church stood by him. They believed it was just a “one time” thing! Only his son was involved no one else. It was a moral failure and many in that church would have kept him on staff as a “forgiven man”….
Ish Engle
July 27, 2008 at 9:26 am
Charles,
I understand your outrage that the man “got away with it”, but I have to question, isn’t a repentant heart being shown forgiveness a core Christian belief? Is this not grace working out?
Maybe I’m not aware of all the facts; maybe he’s not repentant. I don’t know, obviously, but what you’ve listed as facts seems to indicate two things: a failure to accountability by the church leaders; and, grace.
How is turning a blind eye to hidden sins worse than a mockery of worship? Again, I don’t have all the facts, but what has been presented on the videos is not worship, it is a mockery of true worship, and that is a mockery of God.
I’d say they are both “beam” issues as one mocks God’s people’s worship and the other mocks God’s rule in our lives.
Carl
July 27, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Charles, you asked, “how can we condemn the healers in Lakeland?”
Problem is, they aren’t healing anyone.
Carl
July 27, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Oh, by the way, I watched some of the videos of Bentley in action. I can say with quite a bit of authority that he’s using what is known as “cold reading” techniques. And he doesn’t do them well. I was a semi-professional magician for several years and learned a lot of the “mind-reading” techniques such as “cold-reading” and “one-ahead” among others. I also know a lot of the psychology involved in mentalism. Bentley apparently knows the basics of stage mentalism, but isn’t very good at it. He’s preying off desperate people just like Peter Popoff did (and still does); just like Sylvia Brown does; just like James Van Praagh does. All charlatans. All fakers. All frauds. Popof, for instance, shows how far one can go in such abhorant behavior, get caught and then lay low for enough time and then do the same old schtick again raking in the dough. Bentley’s no different and just as abhorant.
TheDeeZone
July 27, 2008 at 10:26 pm
A Bentley follower came in the store the other day. She announced that God had told her to give prophetic words to my customers. Guess I was her 1st victim but I wouldn’t play along with her game. In her words I was refusing God’s blessing.
Next, she decided to prophesy over one of my music vendors. She insisted he raise his hands in the air. She then proceeded to bounce, hit him on the head & shout. Oh, she loudly proclaimed God would give all of this to him in the next 12 months. After she finished, he calmly thanked her for praying Then he begin going through the list of prophecies and refuting each one. Apparently he already had all the “blessings” she claimed for him. At the end, she smiled and said see it came true.
It is very hard to deal with people who forget that we are business and not a church.
Charles Page
July 28, 2008 at 8:22 am
Carl
“Healers in Lakeland” is a tongue in cheek phrase. By their own words and my own belief is that Christ is the healer not us we are just the instruments of God. God does the healing.
Problem is we can’t say God is NOT healing anyone at Lakeland revivals. I can assume that inspite of the foolishness paraded nightly there are those God is healing.
Ish Engle
He has not nor will not “get away with it” so that cannot outrage me. Neither does the fact of heart repentance and grace affect me since I cannot know his heart, I have enough struggles dealing with my own heart let alone someone elses’. Hebrews 10:26-31 seems to present a blockage to my believing that he is forgiven on this earth and that as a believer he has a future of terrible fiery indignation awaiting him. If he was aware of this he would cry out for mountains to tumble on him. He would have rushed to the nearest lake/river tie a milestone around his neck and drown himself rather than do what he did to his own son. Rather he sat year after year and heard “good (the best America has to offer) preaching” and was consoled with a message that quieted his troubled soul. According to an email response from his present pastor at another church he is still receiving comfort and remains satisfied and secure.
I suppose my outrage would be somewhat appeased if people (common/rank and file) at [the church] would have thrown chairs through windows and burnt the church, screaming, “how could this thing happen in OUR Church” “what the hell is wrong with us?”
Rather they sat silent and let their pastor take the brunt of it simply because he did not do anything for six months. Now he bears the result of being as bad as the [abuser] on blogs and media all across the country. His dreams of having the celebrity of his predessor are squashed…. His Church will never be “mega” again. He cannot preach a strong message against homosexuality because he will be reminded of [the church's] legacy.
Has the [abuser] repented? Maybe over and over. Has God forgiven him? Is there a sacrifice for his sin?
I have had daytime visions and estatic experiences that have convinced me that God is angry about this situation and if I relate it to you James will edit my comment. (comment has been edited)
thomastwitchell
July 28, 2008 at 2:10 pm
“Problem is we can’t say God is NOT healing anyone at Lakeland revivals. I can assume that inspite of the foolishness paraded nightly there are those God is healing.”
Well, that’s a problem. Since there has not been one single documented case of a miraculous healing by Bentley then I quess you’re right Charles we cannot say that God is NOT healing. But neither can we say that he is. Assumption, is wrong in any case. Assumption is not predicated upon any known factual information. It therefore translates to presumptuousness.
God is not the author of confusion, and we are not to believe in the opinions of men but to verify all things by two or three witnesses for there are many voices in this world who claim the Name. So, either God is healing and we know it, or it is no good, dependable information, which translates into falsehood not truth, for it remains nothing more than opinions of men; idle voices that do not work.
We are to speak as of oracles of God rather than to presume upon the grace of God by making assumptions. It would be one thing to base an opinion upon some known fact, that would be presumption as opposed to assumption, though still one link removed from veracity. Though we have some of the facts at hand, (in the case of Bentley we have none), except that we know without question that it is indeed God we should withhold opinion.
Clearly the Gospel is absent from Bently’s charade. That begs the question, just where would those “miracles” find their foundation, in lies? Make no mistake, the enemy is fully capable of all lying signs and wonders. It takes far more than signs and wonders to make it a work of God.
Pregador27
July 28, 2008 at 8:17 pm
I think someone should hit him back.
James Galyon
July 28, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Pregador 27:
Carl
July 28, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Charles, they are indeed claiming credit for the “healings” they claim are occurring. and until the proof they promised is presented and verified then I contend they have healed no one. I agree that it is God that does the healing but Bentley and his gang of charlatans are in short mocking God with their fraudulent teachings and false “healings.” Frankly if Bentley has indeed been properly warned of his unbiblical teachings and fakery with the healings yet he continues then I think Titus 3:10,11 applies.
Charles Page
July 28, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Does God heal today? I believe He does. Does He respond miracleously to our prayers?
Yes I believe he does.
Bently does not even enter the picture as to whether it is a work of God. It does not matter whether Bently is true or false it is a question of what does the Bible says about God being a miracle working God. If the Bible says that God heals then God heals. Christ came to this earth attesting that fact.
Ish Engle
July 29, 2008 at 12:45 am
Christ also came to this earth attesting that we should forgive and pray for our enemies; that we should not judge them, but reach out to them in their affliction.
Just a thought…
Charles Page
July 29, 2008 at 8:24 am
Ish Engle
I am no fan of faith healers, for the most part they are charlatans, getting wealthy at common people’s expense. ala Benny Hinn etc
But like Christ isn’t Bentley reaching out to the afflicted? What does your pastor do? Counsel them with armchair strategies? Refer them to professionals who use unscriptural methods, exhaust money and insurance. Rarely are they ever better! Usually they are not healed but “medicated”
My daughter is a nurse at St Judes, by you Carl and Thomas’ standards Danny Thomas is greater than Bentley and maybe even God himself! Many people worship Danny Thomas!
The Bible is my standard and none of us on this earth seem to be living up to it. His will should be done on earth as in heaven. Christ said greater works shall we do…
As messed up as Bentley’s theology is he is attempting to do the “works of Christ”
I believe that Titus 3:10 has more meaning toward anti-Calvinist[biblical] preachers. They are factious as is evident in these days. They are doing more harm than all the Bentleys.
Thomas Twitchell
July 29, 2008 at 10:00 am
“Does God heal today? I believe He does. Does He respond miracleously to our prayers?
Yes I believe he does.”
Agreed, but I believe it because Scripture says so, and you have affirmed as much.
“Bently does not even enter the picture as to whether it is a work of God.”
Here is where you are dead wrong. Scripture attaches authority to the miraculous as you have also affirmed: “Christ came to this earth attesting that fact.” He actually was attesting to his Word and mission being confirmed by those works he did as is stated in Hebrews: “Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.”
You may be smarter than the many who are going to see the snake charmer, but if the gospel that he presents is a false one, it cannot be a work of God for that would make God a liar, confirming Bentley’s false words with signs and wonders in leading all his hearers to believe in another christ. It is not therefore that we should affirm God’s working without knowledge as you have done. Our affirmation that this is a work of God would only serve to encourage others to follow blindly the blind prophet and make us partakers in his leading them into the pit. We would then incur with Bentley Paul’s curse: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”
James Galyon
July 29, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I certainly prefer Danny Thomas to Todd Bentley….
Thomas: Spot on, brother!
Carl
July 29, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Charles, Bentley is reaching out to the afflicted’s wallets.
Ish Engle
July 29, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Charles, I was not talking about Bentley, but about your “friend” the pastor who sinned and has been forgiven by most of the community (with at least one poster here having not forgiven him). I was writing to your post’s total lack of a display of love for the sinner in your story.
As for Bentley, again, there is something off in the tapes shown. They may not be true representatives of his ministry. But what they are showing is not of God because it is not orderly. “For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.” These tapes do NOT show peaceful, orderly worship.
Never have I raised ANYONE over my Lord and Savior, and I do not appreciate your accusation nor your judgment. The Bible is my standard, too. The greatest commandment is to love God. The second is to love each other.
Is Bentley reaching out? Yes. So do the Mormons, the Muslims and many pagans. Does that make him (or them) Godly? What is factious is proclaiming anti-Christian worship as a higher way.
By the way, in honor of your cited verse, let me say that this is your SECOND warning. Don’t proclaim a false-prophet as better than a repentant man. That goes against the Bible in more ways than even Bentley does.
TheDeeZone
July 29, 2008 at 10:08 pm
I believe that God can and does work in miraculous ways. I have personally experienced miracles in my life.
I have a problem with the way many people view miracles. It seems to some miracles and other signs are evidence or at least the basis for faith. For others it is almost like they view God as a giant vending machine. If they drop in a request He will given the a miracle if they claim it. At times it seems as if the focus is only on the so-called miracle rather than the one who gives the miracle.
While I believe I have a miracle or divine intervention in my life, it is not the basis for my faith.
Charles Page
July 29, 2008 at 10:35 pm
“Here is where you are dead wrong” When we discuss/debate and someone says “you are dead wrong” you assume you are dealing with a contemptible or unpleasant person. This person considers your point of view worthless. It is impossibe for you both to be right and if you are “dead wrong” then “I am right”. End of debate. Would someone dismiss us in prayer and we will all meet at KFC for dinner. This is typical of what the thinking person encounters when he visits a fundamental (often SBC) church!
Throw in some sanctimonous scripture and who could argue/debate/discuss. My brother-in-law is visiting from orlando and just over dinner I brought up Thomas’ “dead wrong” statement and his retort after asking for cheese and sour cream for his fahita was “opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one” Then he launches into a long dissertation about why he don’t attend Church anymore because of this very way of thinking by Christians. (You should never bring up religion and politics with family at the dinner table) Brother-in-laws can be so dead right about things!
Snake charmer, liar, blind and false prophets are clearly not of God – True premise. “Bentley is a snake charmer and blind prophet” is not a given premise but an assumption by Thomas. Thomas’ view of Bentley is not equal to the “gospel Paul preached” and therefore incapable of saying Bentley is accursed.
On the other hand I say that the anti-Calvinist [biblical] preachers are dangerously close to preaching another gospel that Paul did not preach and extremely close to being accursed. That is a premise I sincerely desire debate about rather than Bentley. If you disagree with me I will never say “you are dead wrong”.
Now you discuss hyper-Calvinist view of evangelism. They do not bother to evangelize anyone they determine are not the elect. Why bother with them. They are dead to God. You argue against this view and then turn around and say to me the same thing, “you are dead wrong.” Why argue/debate with you!
Thomas, I bear the burden of proving my premise about fundamental preachers’ faulty gospel and you have the burden of proving Bentley’s faulty ministry. Neither of us are dead wrong, neither are we equal to the Apostle Paul. I am personally convinced (powerfully so) that my premise is much easier to defend.
Charles Page
July 29, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Ish Engle
Is it possible that the pastor/child sexual molester (his own young son) will have to wait till after death to find forgiveness?
Or will the son have to wait till after his own death to find justice? According to the Bible is there blanket forgiveness for all prayers/request for forgiveness?
I have not received any warranted warnings from you as I have never offered affirmation of Bentley’s ministry (I have refused to join you in condemning him as you have failed to give adequately scriptural basis), however I will not show “love” toward this minister until God directs me.
I look forward to your efforts to persuade me scripturally how Bentley is faulty. I anticipate convincing you of the faulty anti-Calvinist theology thru scripture.
Charles Page
July 29, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Dee
well said! I agree. The BIBLE is the basis for our faith.
James, If I have to state a preference, I prefer Bentley to Thomas. Thomas was reaching out to the afflicted’s wallet and continues more so than even Bentley’s faith could visualize. St Jude is a gigantic medical empire making the rich even richer.
They like the Mormons, Muslims and many pagans are helping people and like Scientiology getting richer by the afflicted.
James Galyon
July 29, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Don’t children receive care at St. Jude’s because people have been generous and opened their wallets?
Even if it is a “money-grubbing” for profit hospital as you claim, I prefer that immensely over money-grubbing charlatans who dishonor the name of Jesus Christ. St. Jude’s has done a ton more to bring about healing for cancer than has Bentley.
Charles Page
July 29, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Are you saying Danny Thomas is not a money-grubbing charlatan who dishonors the name of Jesus Christ.
I believe that Benny Hinn is a money grubber but I have yet to see evidence that Bentley is. I read blanket statements here that Bentley is a charlatan who dishonors Christ. I hear opinions as to why people think he dishonors Christ. I’ve seen no evidence of any apostasy or blasphemy. The Corinthian leaders could not enforce Biblical order and Paul called them ignorant for their unbelief but not apostate nor blasphemous.
Charles Page
July 29, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Dee said: “At times it seems as if the focus is only on the so-called miracle rather than the one who gives the miracle.”
James say: “St. Jude’s has done a ton more to bring about healing for cancer than has Bentley.”
Thomas said: “Make no mistake, the enemy is fully capable of all lying signs and wonders. It takes far more than signs and wonders to make it a work of God.”
So…the enemy gets the credit for children’s cancer cures.
The enemy gets the credit for the lack of cancer cures in Bentley’s ministry. It takes far more than signs and wonders to make it a work of God.
Can man make a rock bigger than God can carry? Seems we can!
TheDeeZone
July 30, 2008 at 12:27 am
My cousin attended a faith healing service. Don’t know who the preacher was. She was so convinced that she was healed she didn’t bother to get it checked out medically. Her symptoms disappeared. It was over 6 months before her symptoms returned and she was forced to return to the doctor. By that time it was too late and really there isn’t much that can be done for her. She didn’t go to the doctor because the faith healer instructed her not to & that would show a lack of faith.
Can’t verify the claims of St. Jude’s but I do know children who have gone there & were healed/treated medically. Yes I believe God uses doctors. He did in my case. It was a life or death situation and nothing was working. The doctor had only attend a seminar about the procedure but she knew The Great Physician.
So, in my opinion, faith healers like Bently do more damage.
thomastwitchell
July 30, 2008 at 9:49 am
Posh! You have more holes than you know. Check this out at A Rose by Any Other Name You’re beginning to disappoint me Charles if you cannot discern error from truth. The evidence is overwhelming concerning Bentley. I leave you with this: “The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” You’re worrying me Charles in that I am not sure just where you fall in this Scripture.
Dee- could you please demonstrate where I was “reaching out to the afflicted’s wallet”? Not once have I dismissed prayer, nor God’s sufficiency in meeting our needs no matter the means. You throw up a strawman. No one is denying the miraculous. As James said, it is charlatans, especially those like Bentley who are so outrageous and so easily recognized that we are denying as having verity. What is disturbing about Bentley is his heritage and the lineage of his ministry, charlatans all which the ignorant have no knowledge of, and more than that is the willingness of people to be deceived so there “needs” are met. But then it is to be expected: “When you sit down to eat with a ruler, observe carefully what is before you, and put a knife to your throat if you are given to appetite. Do not desire his delicacies, for they are deceptive food.” We are called to discern and to avoid setting our eyes upon the hope that this vain world seeks. We are to listen to the Lord who has said, not that he will heal all, but instead: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Now, if the Apostle Paul endured suffering and was denied healing, who are you to claim that Christ offers it to all? That is what Bentley does and he cannot deliver, can he? The fact remains, he is a liar and makes God his partner in deception. That sounds really familiar. Who is it that would say that Christ has an unclean Spirit?
For most professed believers who have bitten Bentley’s apple, I say read the rest of Proverbs 2. They need to be spanked, really hard, and set back upon the correct course.
thomastwitchell
July 30, 2008 at 10:07 am
Let me correct what I posted. I indicated that the statement was made by Dee, my mistake it was another unwarranted attack upon my integrity by Charles, “Thomas was reaching out to the afflicted’s wallet and continues more so than even Bentley’s faith could visualize.” Charles has nothing in me to attempt such an assasination of character. Charles continues in his bitterness and unrepentance, however, as is so evident in his responses here.
Forgiveness, Charles is what you are charged with doing regardless of the evidence of another’s repentance. You continue to be unconvincing. As in the past and in your many interchanges with James, it is all too evident that you have rejected evidence before it is ever presented.
Sorry Dee, my mistake.
debese
July 30, 2008 at 10:41 am
Interestingly, since I live in Lakeland, I haven’t noticed a huge boom in church attendance by all those affected by the “revivals.” Doing a quick scan of all the other churches in the area, I don’t see a lot of church building projects to accommodate all the new converts either.
Ish Engle
July 30, 2008 at 11:48 am
Again, Charles, you spew forth hatred for a fellow human, one who you say witness testify has repented. You follow that up by supporting a man whose “worship” meetings are chaotic, which I have already pointed out is contrary to what Paul teaches as proper Christian worship.
How can you say that you use the Bible as your standard when you spew forth hatred, judgment and condemnation? Those are the very things that the Messiah found repugnant amongst the leaders of Israel.
I will point out for the third time (and from now on I will disregard you), that you refuse to show love. Even if this man (no not Bentley as I’ve told you a few times now) is not forgiven, that is ESPECIALLY who you should pray for forgiveness for! Jesus said to love those who hate you and to pray for your enemies. He specifically said not to judge and condemn them. My prayer for you is that you hear Christ’s words, repent, and learn to love your fellow human. I will pray for you.
James Galyon
July 30, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Charles: 1) No evidence?!? Re-check that baptism clip. 2) I’ll stick by my guns – Danny Thomas has done more for cancer patients than Todd Bentley.
debese: Very interesting, yet not surprising.
Dee: I’m very sorry to hear the account of your cousin. One of the many reasons I loathe characters like Bentley.
TheDeeZone
July 30, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Thomas: NP
Debese: You answered something I have been wondering. Had a professor say one time that the true way to measure any revival is by the long term effect it has. True revival will change the heart thus having a lasting effect.
James: TY
thomastwitchell
July 30, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I see now that I am confusing Thomas’s. Sorry again… and my apologies to Charles, for that confusion.
Charles Page
July 30, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Ish Engle
Is it possible that the pastor/child sexual molester (his own young son) will have to wait till after death to find forgiveness?
Or will the son have to wait till after his own death to find justice? According to the Bible is there blanket forgiveness for all prayers/request for forgiveness?
Charles
James Galyon
July 30, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Charles:
The father may have forgiveness now, or in this lifetime (granted he repents). He will not be able to repent in the hereafter. Forgiveness will not come beyond the grave, only prior to it. The son may have to wait until after his own death to find justice. He will certainly have to wait until after his death for perfect justice.
According to Scripture, there is forgiveness for all forms of sin. Forgiveness is granted to those who turn from their sin and abandon themselves to God, who is merciful and loving.
Is there forgiveness for all prayers? For all requests for forgiveness? No. Only those which are filled with faith and combined with repentance. There is a vast difference between genuine contrition and just being sorry you got caught.
TheDeeZone
July 30, 2008 at 11:08 pm
In the case of the minster mentioned above, the bigger question is has the son been able to experience healing from the incident?
Carl
July 31, 2008 at 12:26 am
Charles, there is plenty going against Bentley. His unBiblical teachings. His outrageous claims. His broken promises.
For example, he claims proof of “resurrection[s] from the dead”…people coming back from the dead…yet he refuses to provide the proof he has promised to make. He claims three stories of these resurrections have been on the news. No confirmations. Online searches provide not one single corraboration of this. Bentley conveniently provides no specific sources for verification. He proudly announces “one of the largest secular news stations” (actually he was referring to ABC Network — specifically Nightline was scheduled to come to a report on him…turned out he got exposed as a charlatan [http://www.apologeticsindex.org/699-todd-bentley-exposed-on-abc-nightline-takes-a-break and also http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/todd-bentley-on-nightline/ would be covering his “revival.” Turned out the piece raised so many questions concerning him that he took time off. They tried to spin it as an R&R thing, but no one bought their explainations. However just like after Peter Popoff was exposed and took time off, Bentley came back to fleece more people.
And you want everyone to accept this charatan with open arms and accept him as a man of God? We are to test the spirits and hold onto to that which is good. Bentley fails those tests and no one should be holding onto him.
Charles, you want to follow and accept a proven false teacher and a con artist then go right ahead. But don’t waste our time trying to defend false teachers here.
Video of Bentley’s resurrection claims from a couple of months ago:
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/07/please-provide.html
Info on Bentley:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/681-todd-bentley-fresh-fire-ministries
Carl
July 31, 2008 at 12:32 am
Oh, and Charles, I DO my research when people make theological claims in a Bereanic manner. That’s how I discovered that Bentley is a fraud, making outrageous claims, using cheap magicians’ tricks (“cold reading” for example) and trying to pass them off as messages and miracles from God.
Todd Bentley is a despicable individual preying upon desperate people for his own personal glory. He will have to answer for all of this one day.
Charles Page
July 31, 2008 at 8:14 am
James
Are there believers who cannot pray for forgiveness? Are there believers who we should not pray for forgiveness?
Are there believers who will not respond properly when disciplined by the Lord?
Charles Page
July 31, 2008 at 9:16 am
“And you want everyone to accept this charatan with open arms and accept him as a man of God?”
“Charles, you want to follow and accept a proven false teacher and a con artist then go right ahead. But don’t waste our time trying to defend false teachers here.”
Carl, you have not read what I have said, you presumed to read what you thought I wrote.
You are proving to me that Bentley’s practices do not meet nightline’s expectations. You have tested the networks but not the spirits to see if he is a man of God or not. You are using your experiences of “magic” to test him.
Have you used thoes same techniques to “test the spirits” of the evangelism of modern fundamental ‘soul winning’ today? I can perdict what nightline would conclude about them! I don’t use magic.
I know some fundamental ministers who are despicable individuals preying upon desperate people for their own personal glory. Some are already in heaven giving an answer for their actions.
Charles Page
July 31, 2008 at 9:42 am
Ish Ingle
Run this statement again through your brain and see if it gets another rendering, different from your original. Can anyone else get another rendering?
“How can you say that you use the Bible as your standard when you spew forth hatred, judgment and condemnation? Those are the very things that the Messiah found repugnant amongst the leaders of Israel.”
Charles Page
July 31, 2008 at 9:50 am
To take this discussion (I am not the host but the high-jacker of the blog) to a higher level would be to ask if God still chooses to heal today. What does the Bible say about that?
I am a true 5 pt Calvinist (no free offer to all but to the elect) who is non-cessationist.
James, perhaps this could be a good discussion.
Charles Page
July 31, 2008 at 10:18 am
Dee
I have an answer for your question, which represents a compassionate response on your part. I just got off the phone with someone who knows him somewhat and he said that he and some associates have started a new business, successfully and he is moving on with his life. He still gets counseling but my friend does not know how he is progressing in healing. They go to separate Churches and when family meets they are very protective of the children around their grandfather. He cannot be alone with them.
Dee, this was not an ‘incident’ but was molestation that took place for 12-18 months in his own home. His father remained an associate pastor for 17 years and the son endured painful silence for the sake of ‘peace’ of the church.
The ‘peace’ that the Church has came at a cost of God’s own son. The ‘peace’ that this Church had came at the price of this son’s silence. Dee, can you imagine suffering this kind of pain and silence for seventeen years? As soon as his father’s ‘boss’ died he ended his silence. The father was trapped.
One of the interesting things about this is that at his bosses’ funeral the father gave a video tribute. Can you imagine what the son must of thought about his father’s tribute?
TheDeeZone
July 31, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Charles,
Yes, I know it was more than one incident. I also have a good idea what is involved in the healing process for the son. It is a long painful process that will take years. Even then triggers may cause unexpected set backs. Forgiveness is not the same as trust. The Bible directs us to forgive but trust must be earned. The parents are wise in not allowing the children to be alone with the grandfather.
Carl
July 31, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Charles, it’s become apparent to all that you’re merely a Bentley apologist who refuses to see him for what he truly is…a charlatan, false prophet. The facts are out there. Your insinuations and not-so-thinly veiled insults have grown tiresome. I have done my homework concerning Bentley, what he has claimed, what he has taught compared to scripture, his broken promises, his lack of documentation on most claims of supernatural occurances such as the ressurections of the dead he claims, etc. As I said before, and you conveniently ignore, I have been very Bereanic concerning Bentley and he fails most Biblical tests and standards. These are God’s, not mine. I have tested the spirits to see if he is legit. He is not. You may choose to ignore this at your own peril. however I take great umbrage with your snide comments (growing “snider” [if such a word exists] with each post of yours).
For example:
No, Charles, this is patently untrue and insulting as well for you to make such conclusions when you have no basis to reach those conclusions. You accuse me of having not read what you have said yet this is a clear example of you not comprehending what I wrote. Whether this is intentional on your part or just in error is debatable. Regardless, your claims as quote above are just untrue. To reiterate one point: I am quite familiar with a technique called “cold reading.” I see Bentley using cold reading techniques often in the videos I have watched during his “healings.” This is undeniable, however you dismiss it out of hand mainly due to your ignorance of the technique. When I see someone claiming to be a man of God using mentalism techniques and claiming, as Bentley does, that it’s from God, then warning signs pop up figuratively. When I witness someone claiming to be a man of God make major claims concerning supernatural events, such as the ones Bentley has made, yet refuse to provide documentation more red flags pop up figuratively. When I witness someone claiming to be a man of God making promises, such as Bentley has done, yet breaks them often even more red flags figuratively pop up.
Then I get down to brass tacks.
I then go the Bereanic route (remember the Bereans, Charles?) and see what this self-proclaimed man of God actually teaches in Jesus’ name and compare it with Scripture. I’ve done that in regards to Benny Hinn, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Paul Crouch, T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen, and a whole host of similar individuals and sects. If what they teach is in harmony with scripture then I have no problems. Differences in nonessential doctrine is not reason enough to divide but difference in essential doctrine is reason to divide. Bentley fails such BIBLICAL tests.
However, it has become apparent at least to me that you refuse to take a critical look at Bentley with the Bible as the basis for such an examination. This is error on your part. You have instead chosen to throw in your lot with the man and his organization. As such you have become a Bentey apologist and facts be dammned.
This may work with others, but not with me and apparently not with most everyone else who has responded in the comments section. I feel you’ll probably respond with more Bentley apologetics, perhaps some more snide remarks and thinly-veiled insults. Fine. I’m a big boy with thick skin. I can take it. I can also ignore you as well, which I think I will do so after leaving my response.
However, I will leave you with this: I strongly exhort you to examine Bentley critically…his words and deeds…compare them Biblically…ask yourself, “Does a man of God break promises, make claims he refuses to back up with facts and does he teach things that are unBiblical?” If you are truly honest, spiritually and Biblically speaking, then the answers to all those will be “no.” Then ask yourself, “Is Bentley breaking promises, refusing to provide documentation and is he teaching unBiblically?”
May God bless you, Charles. I will keep you in my prayers. Goodbye.
James Galyon
July 31, 2008 at 10:24 pm
To answer your questions, Charles, all believers should confess their sin to God. There are believers who may not respond “properly” when they are disciplined by the Lord, but God in His mercy will not let them go and will continue to chastise them as needed. BTW, you didn’t hijack this blog…just the comments section.
Charles, do you find it ironic that you call yourself a “true five-point Calvinist” when John Calvin would disagree with you about the free offer?
BTW, I don’t think anyone here would disagree with you that God still heals today. The issue isn’t whether or not God can and does heal, but whether or not Todd Bentley is being used by God to heal. There’s a big difference there. As several have pointed out, there are no medical confirmations and there doesn’t appear to be any significant Kingdom growth taking place down in Florida. Those are telling signs for one claiming to have such a “powerful anointing.”
James Galyon
July 31, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Dee – spot on!
TheDeeZone
July 31, 2008 at 10:46 pm
I have briefly mentioned this before but I know God heals because it has happened to me. However, it wasn’t a flashy show, It did involve 2 doctors (one was a lay-preacher) who believed that God could direct their paths in a procedure that they had little experience performing. It also, involved a lot of prayer by family and my dad’s church. Was it a miracle healing? Well, the doctors claimed on The Great Physician could have healed me because it was later discovered they made a critical error. My parents attributed it to the power of prayer.
James & Others,
I think many have it on a key factor has there been any real sustainable growth. I am reminded of something Dr. Fish said in class about the only way to measure if a true revival occurred is based upon the lasting effects not the number of people who walked the aisle or repented in a state of emotional appeal.
The past April we attended one of the Passion Regionals with our college ministry. The Gospel was presented in the most unusual way and non-emotional way. It was presented in a quite dark arena packed with college using a text based presentation on a big screen. The session before students were told what would happen and to enter quietly. Also, they were instructed if you want to talk to someone walk quietly to the back and find someone in a red shirt. The emphasis was on the Gospel alone. Several of our students commented how much the presentation impacted them.
Carl
August 1, 2008 at 1:45 am
Thanks James. You elaborated some points that were also on my mind as well.
Charles Page
August 1, 2008 at 9:33 am
James, you wrote: ” The issue isn’t whether or not God can and does heal, but whether or not Todd Bentley is being used by God to heal. There’s a big difference there. As several have pointed out, there are no medical confirmations and there doesn’t appear to be any significant Kingdom growth taking place down in Florida. Those are telling signs for one claiming to have such a “powerful anointing.”
I hear “we don’t follow signs” and yet Todd is determined to be false by lack of signs; “no medical confirmations and there doesn’t appear to be any significant Kingdom growth”
You are not going to get substantial medical confirmation about miracle healing from a doctor! Think about it! Medical liability and medical profit determines the outcome of that. At best you will get a kind smile and a possible recognition of God’s healing power. Why don’t we demand psychiatric evaluations for the converted? Should a psychiatrist see the phychological results of spiritual faith?
Significant kingdom growth! How did you determine that?
By saying “there doesn’t appear to be any…” Not hardly a means of arriving at truth but rather groundless supposition.
Leaving Bently aside, what about thoes in his camp since 1970 who have practiced faith healing? Has there been significant kingdom growth” In 1946 (the year of my birth) there were 16 million Pentecostal/Charismatics world wide and 1987 there were 247 million worldwide. Significant kingdom growth! Unpresidented in human history. see (pun intended) Peter Wagner, “Global Church Growth”.
So once you disprove Todd you have several thousands more to disapprove. Unless disproving Todd disproves all.
“… all believers should confess their sin to God. There are believers who may not respond “properly” when they are disciplined by the Lord, but God in His mercy will not let them go and will continue to chastise them as needed.”
Aren’t there some who will not respond “properly” and God lets them die to face Him? Their chastisement ceases on earth and we are discouraged from praying for them and it is needless for them to pray for forgiveness. They will not receive forgiveness in heaven but discipline. Isn’t there a fiery test of their works that will declare their faith on earth? Won’t there be thoes who tread the blood of Christ even though they are sanctified by that same blood?
Won’t there be those in heaven who have no more sacrifice to cover their sins?
James, what an honor to be corrected by John Calvin and a greater honor to be proven right over John Calvin. That is why we have a Holy Bible.
Charles Page
August 1, 2008 at 10:13 am
Carl said, “However, I will leave you with this: I strongly exhort you to examine Bentley critically…his words and deeds…compare them Biblically…ask yourself, “Does a man of God break promises, make claims he refuses to back up with facts and does he teach things that are unBiblical?” If you are truly honest, spiritually and Biblically speaking, then the answers to all those will be “no.” Then ask yourself, “Is Bentley breaking promises, refusing to provide documentation and is he teaching unBiblically?”
Since I don’t want to be a liar, unspiritual and a Biblical unbeliever I have to answer “no”. I concede to you that Bently “seems” according to the TV networks and your experience with “magic” to be breaking promises, refusing to provide documentation however I struggle to say he is teaching “unBiblically”. If I am honest and I try to achieve honesty, it is hard to find who is Biblical in essentials let alone in secondary beliefs. Carl, are you Biblical? Are you the source of the true interpretation of the Bible? If you are do you have extra room in your house for me to “move in”? You said, ” If what they teach is in harmony with scripture then I have no problems.” You can help me a lot because I want to live in harmony with Scripture. Please continue to pray for me and don’t give up on me. Don’t let an old hard head like me get through to your thick skin.
One of the kinks in your methodology of criticiquing the “individuals” and “sects” Biblically is that I would have to include men like, oh say Adrian Rogers, and believe me we don’t even want to go there. I also get down to brass tacks and try to be impartial and objective with my evaluation. I also ask the Holy Spirit to assist me in my evaluations. He has an incredible perspective on ministerial evaluations as His equal displayed while on earth.
Perhaps you and I could work together as a team, Charles and Carl Ministries or Carl and Charles Ministries.
James Galyon
August 1, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Charles – I’m glad you’ve realized how biblical Calvin is and have been overjoyed to be corrected by the Scriptures through him.
Charles Page
August 1, 2008 at 8:35 pm
James,
Ha! You wish! I rejoice that we have a Bible over us all!
James, I like you!
Charles
Carl
August 1, 2008 at 9:48 pm
For whatever it’s worth here’s a URL with a collection of interesting lessons on the topic of false teachers:
http://www.bible.org/topic.php?topic_id=97
James Galyon
August 2, 2008 at 1:35 am
Charles, I’m glad you like me. Seriously.
Carl, thanks for the link.
Carl
August 2, 2008 at 2:55 am
An interesting video on YouTube concerning Todd Bentley, his beliefs and his teachings:
Charles Page
August 2, 2008 at 11:23 am
Carl
I am impressed with the methodology of this video production. If I had the tech skills and the money I could use the same format to attack a false minister I know who abused the Word of God. Many of his followers need to be turned away from his deceitful message with even greater urgency. If you led to assist me get in touch with me.
your friend
Charles
TheDeeZone
August 3, 2008 at 7:13 am
James,
Wrote something after reading your post and the comments.
D
Charles Page
August 3, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Instead of focusing on the errors of Todd why can’t we focus on the things Christ did? One commonality of Todd and Christ is that both were surrounded with the hungry afflicted masses. In greart numbers! There is little psychological differences in the crowds in Christ’s day and Todd’s. Both crowds were worn out by the religious leadership that asked much and offered nothing in return.
Sensationalism can’t be avoided. Uncontroled emotional excessiveness by the seekers and people who just go ‘crazy’ in a crowd are unavoidable. Skeptics are always a part of the crowd. These things are out of our control.
Decency and order are culture issues and not necessarily the same things called for by Paul in Corinthians.
What Would Jesus Do? What if we just obeyed the Holy Spirit and followed his lead? No, that would be too simple. Let’s form a study committee and table the discussion till this time next year and hear later and then form a pre-revival preparation committee to present the next year. Meanwhile we’ll analysize Todd and be certain of his faults and maybe write a book condemning Todd. maybe we’ll make some money! There is something that excites me!
James Galyon
August 3, 2008 at 8:23 pm
“Instead of focusing on the errors of _____ why can’t we focus on the things Christ did?”
Fill in the blank: Bentley, Arius, Nestorius, Pelagius, etc. Focusing on the work of Christ Jesus causes us, at times, to also focus on errors. When the work and commands of Christ are denied and ignored, when the Person of Christ is not proclaimed in all His fullness, then we have a problem. That is what is at issue here.
Universalists have food pantries for the innumerable poor, does that mean we should merely be thankful for their positive contributions and be unconcerned with their doctrine?
You state, “There is little psychological differences in the crowds in Christ’s day and Todd’s. Both crowds were worn out by the religious leadership that asked much and offered nothing in return.” Todd Bentley and other Word Faith teachers are asking much of their hearers and offering nothing in return.
If Bentley “just obeyed the Holy Spirit and followed His lead”
then the circus known as the “Florida Outpouring” would have no traction whatsoever.
TheDeeZone
August 3, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Today in Bible study one of our college student has been attending Southeastern University (Assembly of God School) commented this morning how he had never heard of Bentley until recently. He said that there was no noticable change or growth in the local churches. He is not the only person from Lakeland that has told me this. Just something I find interesting.
Charles Page
August 3, 2008 at 9:33 pm
“When the work and commands of Christ are denied and ignored, when the Person of Christ is not proclaimed in all His fullness, then we have a problem. That is what is at issue here.”
James, very, very true. Where is this being accomplished in America? Perhaps I am a pessimist here. Point me to where this is being done. Other than the “SBC” who is doing the work of Christ in biblical expectations.
Here I go beating a dead horse again. “Todd Bentley and other Word Faith teachers are asking much of their hearers and offering nothing in return.” “religious leadership” includes more than Word Faith teachers it includes the preaching that America hears in pulpits every Sunday. We are preached to death, James. Just like the masses in Jesus’ day. There are burdens laid on us but no impartation of power (excuse the Toddism) Instead of impartation we go to a seminar (an intensive preaching/teaching/training-extension of what we hear every Sunday only by a popular Christian celebrity- costing $200 nic meals and gas and surprise offerings and tape sales.) We go there desperate for power and are carried into the third heaven with truth and testimonies only to be let down Monday with reality.
We don’t want to observe the works of Christ we want to do the works of Christ! Who is there to help us, James?
Who lays their hands on us and says: “the Holy Spirit says, separate this man for the work wherewith I have called him.” Instead we are told, “Come back next Sunday and bring someone with you.” “For your convenience we can mail you a years supply of offering envelopes personalized for you.” “Or just debit you account weekly and you won’t have to even come to Church” “Never mind them stingy prayer cards!”
James, it is more than the d@#* Word Faith teachers. It is a problem in all our Churches. $#!t, James, I am now so mad I can’t stop this triad. Rant, rant, rant, rant, rant……………………………………
Carl
August 4, 2008 at 12:32 am
That is indeed interesting, Dee.
Charles Page
August 4, 2008 at 1:08 pm
That is interesting! I live in in the Memphis area in the shadow of the flagship SBC Church, the largest in Memphis, and there has not been any noticable change in the local churches except a constant trickle of people from the flagship Church to other Churches. Growth by membership tranfer. The flagship is not nearly as packed as it was three years ago. What is the matter in Memphis and Lakeland? Where are the signs that follow believers? Where is the anti-Calvinist evangelism. Are there any soul winners in Memphis? No there are high paid staff members tranfering membership! Are they transfering membership in Lakeland? I’ll bet not like Memphis!
Charles Page
August 11, 2008 at 6:30 am
James
Has God ever “BAMED” you. He did me on Dec 22, 2005. I was in a 53 foot trailer loading freight with a Jehovah Witness named John. He commissioned me to proclaim to John the lordship of Christ and for two years John and I went back and forth about
Christ. He is still JW but I have never been the same since! I am convinced that he has the “mark” on him as the elect of God and that he will follow Christ. He will repent and renounce JW doctrine. I believe that strongly. God’s Word will not return to Him void!
The result has been a boldness to tell everybody about Jesus. Everybody at work knows that I am excited about Christ. From the highest management level to the sweaty coworker beside me. They know I am excited about Christ.
My Church, pastors, Bible fellowship Class, neighbors and everyone (not literally) at Walmart, MacDonalds, State Farm etc etc know my enthusiasm for Christ. I have been “BAMED”!
I am a bold, Spirit Filled, evangelistic and hyper/high Calvinist who is excited about Christ.
James Galyon
August 11, 2008 at 11:29 am
Charles:
I’m appreciative of your zeal for our Lord Jesus Christ. I hope your co-worker, John, does come to faith in Christ. Like you, I believe the text from Isaiah where the Lord proclaims His word will not return to Him void. When people believe His word has taken effect, and when people refuse to believe His word still has an effect. Keep telling others about the good news of Jesus Christ, my friend.
Charles Page
August 12, 2008 at 7:40 pm
James
This just occured to me this afternoon. When I was “bamed” by the Lord and began witnessing to John (Dec 22, 2005) almost immediately after reading Num 10:35 I drove to the neighborhood Kingdom Hall and through the drive thru porch stopped my car and quoted this scripture and then asked the Lord to disperse the group with confusion and disunity. “Let the truth they abused be a source of confusion.” I then drove to the Latter day Saints building just a quarter mile from the Kingdom Hall and did the same.
I then drove a determined route over the city and prayed over the days’ Sunday services at ten Churches. I did this at 6AM every sunday for over a year. I told no one about this except my wife (I may have told my daughter, she joked about me going to the Kingdom Hall!) and of course my dog, Roscoe, who was always with me. Later I told my Bible fellowship class.
This afternoon I discovered prayers of imprecation. I had always overlooked the significance of these passages, Psalms 109: 6-20 as well as
69 esp. v. 9
I was cursing the Kindom Hall yet the Holy Spirit gave me a supernatural love for my JW friend, John. We are today very good friends. The Holy Spirit gave me a love for John and a hatred for the JW doctrines? Your comments?
Carl
August 16, 2008 at 9:56 pm
So Todd Bentley’s been having an affair all along?